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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:47 pm 
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My bad on the trade option., but how much "not so much dead cap space" do you think he's got left?


We have Hossa under contract for six more years:

2016: $7.9MM (2.2 over hit)
2017: $4MM (3.54 under hit)
2018: $1MM (4.7 under hit)
2019: $1MM
2020: $1MM
2021: $1MM

I don't think it's unreasonable to think we can get two more meaningful years out of Hossa. After that, he dies and goes to long-term injured reserve heaven, which makes offseasons annoying but would be preferable to recaptures. If you were to trade him this summer, it would be $2.625MM a year in dead cap space for six years, next summer $3.675MM a year for five, and $4.275MM from there. I'll try my luck with keeping him and LTIRing him.

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Last edited by Curious Hair on Thu May 28, 2015 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:47 pm 
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They can have Hossa in a year or two become "injured" and have him go on long term IR forever in theory. I think that is right.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:18 pm 
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Minooka Meatball wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Might be gone this summer if Hartman or Ross can bring what he brings at half the price. It'll be a shame if he has to go.


Dont know either guy, but are they big and on Uppers? We can use 1 or 2 more of those guys.

Ryan Hartman (the kid out of West Dundee) has a little more upside than Shaw does but is similar. Garret Ross is more or less a clone. If they have to squeeze out a guy who's only making $2MM, which really isn't that much for a quality bottom-six guy, it'll be because Saad is gouging us the way Toews and Kane just did.


How is it gouging that two elite players signed for their market value? IIRC, there were no contentious negotiations with either player. The Hawk smartly locked up their core heading into the players' prime. It was Tallon who fucked this team over with the ridiculous Hossa contract; if not for that, there would not be one eye-blink regarding the Toews and Kane extensions.

Yes, we realize it's too bad about the cap, but I would much rather be in the position of juggling my way under the cap because I have a wealth of world-class players (who a few I may need to say goodbye to down the road), with some promise coming out of the system, then say Buffalo - or Minnesota, who paid boatloads of money to sign Suter and Parise, but so far have nothing to show for it and those two disappearing in the playoffs.


shakes wrote:
Exactly, there isn't a bigger insult you can say about the Hawks than to say Toews and Kane gouged team. Such a fucking joke to say something so ignorant.

Toews and Kane are worth 3x that much, if there wasn't a cap they would each get Michael Jordan type deals. They are without a doubt the two most valuable players in the entire NHL when it comes to worth to their franchise. No one has done more for their franchise than Toews and Kane have. No one has raised the value of their franchise the way Toews and Kane have. Its unfortunate that there is a cap because these two deserve to be the two of the highest paid athletes in pro sports when value to franchise is factored in.


This and the comment about Hossa is why the hockey thread is a good place to avoid.

No Hossa, No Stanley Cups. They signed a deal that worked for both and the proof is in the results.

And shakes is spot on about Toews and Kane. Those Chevy commercials don't come close to making up for what they are worth over and above their contracts.

The Hawks should build a fucking statue for Dale Tallon.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:32 pm 
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shakes wrote:
They are without a doubt the two most valuable players in the entire NHL when it comes to worth to their franchise.

No. Sidney Crosby saved the Penguins from moving to freaking Kansas City, Las Vegas or who the hell knows where. Alex Ovechkin revived the shit show in DC and is essentially the only reason to tune into that slowly decaying team. But Toews and Kane are at least in the conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:35 pm 
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Stamkos arguably saved the Bolts from moving when Oren Koules owned the team, a tenure which basically consisted of walking around lighting random things on fire.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:38 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Stamkos arguably saved the Bolts from moving when Oren Koules owned the team, a tenure which basically consisted of walking around lighting random things on fire.

Oh god, forgot about those yahoos. Barry Melrose scratching and benching Stamkos as coach! :lol:


Last edited by Kirkwood on Thu May 28, 2015 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:38 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
shakes wrote:
They are without a doubt the two most valuable players in the entire NHL when it comes to worth to their franchise.

No. Sidney Crosby saved the Penguins from moving to freaking Kansas City, Las Vegas or who the hell knows where. Alex Ovechkin revived the shit show in DC and is essentially the only reason to tune into that slowly decaying team. But Toews and Kane are at least in the conversation.



The amount of dollars that Toews and Kane have provided to the Hawks is unbelievable. It's in the 100's of millions in ticket sales, jersey sales and ad dollars.

Ovechkin and Crosby combined don't even come close.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:40 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
shakes wrote:
They are without a doubt the two most valuable players in the entire NHL when it comes to worth to their franchise.

No. Sidney Crosby saved the Penguins from moving to freaking Kansas City, Las Vegas or who the hell knows where. Alex Ovechkin revived the shit show in DC and is essentially the only reason to tune into that slowly decaying team. But Toews and Kane are at least in the conversation.



The amount of dollars that Toews and Kane have provided to the Hawks is unbelievable. It's in the 100's of millions in ticket sales, jersey sales and ad dollars.

Ovechkin and Crosby combined don't even come close.

Uhhh, the Penguins would cease to exist. I'll give it Crosby and it's not even close.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:48 pm 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
shakes wrote:
They are without a doubt the two most valuable players in the entire NHL when it comes to worth to their franchise.

No. Sidney Crosby saved the Penguins from moving to freaking Kansas City, Las Vegas or who the hell knows where. Alex Ovechkin revived the shit show in DC and is essentially the only reason to tune into that slowly decaying team. But Toews and Kane are at least in the conversation.



The amount of dollars that Toews and Kane have provided to the Hawks is unbelievable. It's in the 100's of millions in ticket sales, jersey sales and ad dollars.

Ovechkin and Crosby combined don't even come close.

Uhhh, the Penguins would cease to exist. I'll give it Crosby and it's not even close.


They would exist somewhere other than Pittsburgh.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:13 pm 
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Seacrest wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
shakes wrote:
They are without a doubt the two most valuable players in the entire NHL when it comes to worth to their franchise.

No. Sidney Crosby saved the Penguins from moving to freaking Kansas City, Las Vegas or who the hell knows where. Alex Ovechkin revived the shit show in DC and is essentially the only reason to tune into that slowly decaying team. But Toews and Kane are at least in the conversation.



The amount of dollars that Toews and Kane have provided to the Hawks is unbelievable. It's in the 100's of millions in ticket sales, jersey sales and ad dollars.

Ovechkin and Crosby combined don't even come close.


Yep, Spot on Seacrest. The $$$ that Toews and Kane have generated for the Hawks is more than Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos combined. No one in the NHL is more $$$ valuable to their franchise than Toews and Kane AINEC.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:18 pm 
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shakes wrote:
Seacrest wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
shakes wrote:
They are without a doubt the two most valuable players in the entire NHL when it comes to worth to their franchise.

No. Sidney Crosby saved the Penguins from moving to freaking Kansas City, Las Vegas or who the hell knows where. Alex Ovechkin revived the shit show in DC and is essentially the only reason to tune into that slowly decaying team. But Toews and Kane are at least in the conversation.



The amount of dollars that Toews and Kane have provided to the Hawks is unbelievable. It's in the 100's of millions in ticket sales, jersey sales and ad dollars.

Ovechkin and Crosby combined don't even come close.


Yep, Spot on Seacrest. The $$$ that Toews and Kane have generated for the Hawks is more than Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos combined. No one in the NHL is more $$$ valuable to their franchise than Toews and Kane AINEC.

That's simply because they're Chicago Blackhawks.

Crosby is the face of the NHL in Pittsburgh! No one gives a shit about sports in Florida and yet Stamkos is a face.

Toews and Kane are merely a cog in the McDonough/Rocky machine. Stamkos or Crosby would crush it even more if they were in Chicago.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:23 pm 
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The Kane/Toews masturbation is short-term memory. Bandwagon fans like shakes prolly don't remember in how shitty a shape the NHL was after the 04-05 lockout.

The Ovechkin/Crosby battles drew back a ton of fans back into the NHL after swearing they were done.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:24 pm 
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I don't care about your silly argument but Crosby is huge and so important to Pittsburgh. The jerseys alone and outpouring are incredible. Sure population here can't make the dollars match but if Crosby in LA, chgo or NY he would be Hollywood huge.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:26 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I don't care about your silly argument but Crosby is huge and so important to Pittsburgh. The jerseys alone and outpouring are incredible. Sure population here can't make the dollars match but if Crosby in LA, chgo or NY he would be Hollywood huge.



LA maybe, but definitely not in Chicago.

Too soft and too prone to disappear in the play offs.

Oh, and he is a cheap shotting little jag off when things aren't going his way.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:33 pm 
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I'm talking strictly popularity and dollars not playing terms.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 3:36 pm 
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pittmike wrote:
I'm talking strictly popularity and dollars not playing terms.



He wouldn't be as popular here for the reasons I mentioned.

Stamkos would be I think.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 10:39 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
Crosby is the face of the NHL in Pittsburgh! No one gives a shit about sports in Florida and yet Stamkos is a face.

Toews and Kane are merely a cog in the McDonough/Rocky machine. Stamkos or Crosby would crush it even more if they were in Chicago.


The fact is they're not in Chicago. Toews and Kane are and we've all seen the meteoric rise the franchise has had since they got here. Blackhawks are now one of the most valuable franchises in all of sports, let alone the NHL. Pittsburg, Tampa and Washington aren't even close to their level.

And including Stamkos and Ovechkin in this comparison is a joke. Stamkos isn't even the best center in Tampa anymore, let alone the undisputed face of the franchise. Washington isn't even close to the financial powerhouse that the Hawks are so Ovechkin's $$ value isn't in the same ballpark as Toews and Kane.

The FACT (not hypotheticals like you are trying to argue) are that no two players have made more $$ for their team than Toews and Kane have. They are quite simply the two most valuable players in the NHL in terms of $$ generated and that is the bottom line.

They should each be getting paid in the $20-30 million dollar per year area based on what they have done for the team and what they continue to do.

Anyone saying they are overpaid or that they gouged the team is an IDIOT.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 10:40 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
The Kane/Toews masturbation is short-term memory. Bandwagon fans like shakes prolly don't remember in how shitty a shape the NHL was after the 04-05 lockout.

The Ovechkin/Crosby battles drew back a ton of fans back into the NHL after swearing they were done.



You're an idiot.

Enforcing the rule book is what brought fans back to the game. Ovechkin/Crosby are not Magic/Bird.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 10:52 am 
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shakes, look, hockey existed before 2009. wikipedia it before posting more garbage.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 10:52 am 
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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 10:55 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
shakes, look, hockey existed before 2009. wikipedia it before posting more garbage.


Dude, you're arguing with some who won a free fantasy football league. Best to just step down. You're obviously nowhere near his level.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 10:59 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
shakes, look, hockey existed before 2009. wikipedia it before posting more garbage.



Illegal Clutching and grabbing along with unchecked mucking and grinding existed before 2008. You know, before most people jumped on the Hawks bandwagon here and elsewhere.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:00 am 
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shakes wrote:
And including Stamkos and Ovechkin in this comparison is a joke. Stamkos isn't even the best center in Tampa anymore, let alone the undisputed face of the franchise.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:25 am 
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shakes wrote:
Enforcing the rule book is what brought fans back to the game.

Yeah, they need to do that again.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:37 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
shakes, look, hockey existed before 2009. wikipedia it before posting more garbage.


So you got nothing. That's what I suspected. Carry on.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:38 am 
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Kirkwood wrote:
shakes wrote:
And including Stamkos and Ovechkin in this comparison is a joke. Stamkos isn't even the best center in Tampa anymore, let alone the undisputed face of the franchise.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

ImageImageImageImageImageImageImage



You really misspelled Tyler Johnson, like really bad.

Ask any Tampa fan who their best center is and 99% of them will say Johnson, not #91.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:42 am 
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Curious Hair wrote:
shakes wrote:
Enforcing the rule book is what brought fans back to the game.

Yeah, they need to do that again.



Yes, they do. The sooner the better.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:54 am 
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shakes wrote:
Kirkwood wrote:
shakes, look, hockey existed before 2009. wikipedia it before posting more garbage.


So you got nothing. That's what I suspected. Carry on.

I have plenty. But when you say idiotic things like Johnson is better than Stamkos then I have no use arguing with a delusional arrogant dumbass.

The reduction of clutching and grabbing did help. But that's not the main reason why hockey has exploded in popularity. If so, then hockey would be dying right now as it's back in a dead puck era.

No, the biggest reason why hockey emerged from it's shitshow is that large markets stopped shitting the bed. Within the past ten years Chicago, Boston, New York, Montreal, Los Angeles, Philadelphia and Washington have all had significant success. Those teams all have marketable generational talents that are emblazoned across their cities and across the country on NBC and NBC Sports.

Before the lockout you had a Cup finals of:
Lightning/Flames
Devils/Ducks
Wings/Canes
Avalance/Devils
Devils/Stars
Stars/Sabres

None of those teams are in large markets (other than Wysh I have never heard of Devils fans).

Hockey like baseball is primarily regional. With core markets in the Northeast and Midwest succeeding you have enormous growth.

It's that simple kiddo


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 11:56 am 
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Seacrest wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
shakes wrote:
Enforcing the rule book is what brought fans back to the game.

Yeah, they need to do that again.



Yes, they do. The sooner the better.


yep, I've been saying that since the 90s..everytime there's a lockout they come back and enforce the rules by the letter of the law for a few weeks and then it goes back to clutching and grabbing. Shit, after teh last lockout they even started calling interference on defenseman during dumpins at the blue line. That lasted about a week.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2015 12:04 pm 
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The sad reality is that concussion talk has been way way way down since the league started letting defenders attach themselves to guys like Metroids back in early 2012.

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