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 Post subject: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 12:08 am 
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So????? Headbutt in? legal or not? Announcers said YES, refs said NO???

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 12:10 am 
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You can't do it on purpose, but if you make it look like you were stopping or your head is turned away from the puck it will count as a goal. I think. Kinda like the kicking it in rule.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 11:38 am 
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No I know this....but I find it funny the announcers didnt know it and Shaw was proud he did it, as he was pointing to his head.

It is a problem I have always had with hockey that the greasy goal defines a game..

The Hossa goal earlier....Hossa actually knocked it out of the goal and the defensemen knocked it in...you can say that happens in BBall, which it does, but the goal is much more impactful in hockey.

Bigger blue circle nobody can come in??? The make the goal a little bigger?

Yes, would like to see more slap shots.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 2:16 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
Bigger blue circle nobody can come in??? The make the goal a little bigger?


I would be in favor of an expanded crease, with the tradeoff being that goalies who venture beyond it are absolutely fair game for contact.

I used to be against making the goal bigger, but if 6'7" white dudes are going to take up goaltending instead of missing three-pointers and equipment size is going to remain unchecked, then you know what, make it bigger.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 3:58 pm 
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Aren't big goalie pads kind of ridiculous in this age where lighter, less bulky body armor is available?

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 4:35 pm 
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Just dont see many guys making shots. Always need a redirect or a blocker in front of the goalie, or a rebound.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 4:39 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
Just dont see many guys making shots. Always need a redirect or a blocker in front of the goalie, or a rebound.

ImageImage

Mike Vernon was no slouch, mind you.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 4:44 pm 
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They have addressed pads some in last couple years but as CH's post illustrates is a big change. Cut it down a lot more.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:46 am 
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Love Shawzer.....we buy our herb from the same guy,although Shaw is only a seasonal customer whereas I'm a lifer.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:50 am 
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shakes wrote:
Love Shawzer.....we buy our herb from the same guy,although Shaw is only a seasonal customer whereas I'm a lifer.


I do love watching him, as I dont think he is a great skater? But he seems to get the job done in a really ugly fashion.

Seems to realize he is a the hustle guy who doesnt have the talent, thus his talent is hustle and he never stops, never steps aside when he knows a hit is coming.

Assume everyone else on team sees his hustle and respects the guy for it...he gets results.

Would assume all these guys need some off season herb.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 11:53 am 
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Might be gone this summer if Hartman or Ross can bring what he brings at half the price. It'll be a shame if he has to go.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 12:00 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Might be gone this summer if Hartman or Ross can bring what he brings at half the price. It'll be a shame if he has to go.


Dont know either guy, but are they big and on Uppers? We can use 1 or 2 more of those guys.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 12:01 pm 
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bigfan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Might be gone this summer if Hartman or Ross can bring what he brings at half the price. It'll be a shame if he has to go.


Dont know either guy, but are they big and on Uppers? We can use 1 or 2 more of those guys.

Ryan Hartman (the kid out of West Dundee) has a little more upside than Shaw does but is similar. Garret Ross is more or less a clone. If they have to squeeze out a guy who's only making $2MM, which really isn't that much for a quality bottom-six guy, it'll be because Saad is gouging us the way Toews and Kane just did.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 12:45 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Might be gone this summer if Hartman or Ross can bring what he brings at half the price. It'll be a shame if he has to go.


Dont know either guy, but are they big and on Uppers? We can use 1 or 2 more of those guys.

Ryan Hartman (the kid out of West Dundee) has a little more upside than Shaw does but is similar. Garret Ross is more or less a clone. If they have to squeeze out a guy who's only making $2MM, which really isn't that much for a quality bottom-six guy, it'll be because Saad is gouging us the way Toews and Kane just did.


Is Saad worth the investment?

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 12:49 pm 
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Tall Midget wrote:
Is Saad worth the investment?

No question.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 12:52 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Tall Midget wrote:
Is Saad worth the investment?

No question.


Tell me more...

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 12:54 pm 
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He's a big-bodied, well-rounded winger. In terms of his skill set, he's basically a junior Marian Hossa, someone you want to have around for a long time.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 12:58 pm 
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CH is 100% correct. There's a reason the Hawks have been very aggressive internationally and with NCAA guys. They are going to need inexpensive replacements once Saad and Kruger get paid. Stan is hoping like hell a couple of them (combined with a handful of Rockford guys) hit to keep this team's 'window' open.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:00 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Might be gone this summer if Hartman or Ross can bring what he brings at half the price. It'll be a shame if he has to go.


Dont know either guy, but are they big and on Uppers? We can use 1 or 2 more of those guys.

Ryan Hartman (the kid out of West Dundee) has a little more upside than Shaw does but is similar. Garret Ross is more or less a clone. If they have to squeeze out a guy who's only making $2MM, which really isn't that much for a quality bottom-six guy, it'll be because Saad is gouging us the way Toews and Kane just did.


How is it gouging that two elite players signed for their market value? IIRC, there were no contentious negotiations with either player. The Hawk smartly locked up their core heading into the players' prime. It was Tallon who fucked this team over with the ridiculous Hossa contract; if not for that, there would not be one eye-blink regarding the Toews and Kane extensions.

Yes, we realize it's too bad about the cap, but I would much rather be in the position of juggling my way under the cap because I have a wealth of world-class players (who a few I may need to say goodbye to down the road), with some promise coming out of the system, then say Buffalo - or Minnesota, who paid boatloads of money to sign Suter and Parise, but so far have nothing to show for it and those two disappearing in the playoffs.


Last edited by Minooka Meatball on Thu May 28, 2015 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:01 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
He's a big-bodied, well-rounded winger. In terms of his skill set, he's basically a junior Marian Hossa, someone you want to have around for a long time.


That's quite a compliment for Saad. Didn't know he was that highly regarded.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:10 pm 
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Minooka Meatball wrote:
How is it gouging that two elite players signed for their market value? IIRC, there were no contentious negotiations with either player. The Hawk smartly locked up their core heading into the players' prime. It was Tallon who fucked this team over with the ridiculous Hossa contract; if not for that, there would not be one eye-blink regarding the Toews and Kane extensions.


1) The Hossa contract was legal when all parties signed it and was only punished three and a half years ex post facto.

2) There's a lot of debate as to how much say Tallon even had in signing Hossa. Tallon wanted Havlat and was out the door soon after.

3) There is no way in which having Marian Hossa well under market value for two championship seasons fucked us. Other Tallon contracts have hurt, and we'll get hit with the bullshit recapture down the road, but Hossa was an enormous coup.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:20 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Minooka Meatball wrote:
How is it gouging that two elite players signed for their market value? IIRC, there were no contentious negotiations with either player. The Hawk smartly locked up their core heading into the players' prime. It was Tallon who fucked this team over with the ridiculous Hossa contract; if not for that, there would not be one eye-blink regarding the Toews and Kane extensions.


1) The Hossa contract was legal when all parties signed it and was only punished three and a half years ex post facto.

2) There's a lot of debate as to how much say Tallon even had in signing Hossa. Tallon wanted Havlat and was out the door soon after.

3) There is no way in which having Marian Hossa well under market value for two championship seasons fucked us. Other Tallon contracts have hurt, and we'll get hit with the bullshit recapture down the road, but Hossa was an enormous coup.


Hossa was a coup at the time, and the annual salary decent, but the length of the deal, legal and agreed to or not, was just plain dumb, knowing full well that his production would start sliding a few years in. So, unless a) he retires, or b) they find a sucker to trade with and take on the contract, they have to absorb his cap hit for 6 more years. That money would be plenty to extend Saad without much worry.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:24 pm 
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Of course his production would decline, but they signed it in part knowing that Hossa is a conditioning machine who could remain a meaningful contributor right up until the dummy years. I think we've seen that, with him scoring fewer points but still playing consummate defense (this is exactly how people defend Toews, and he's only 26). If that was the way to sign him, I'm glad we did, and I hope he'll hang around the team as long as he can.

And no, they can't trade him, because then recapture would immediately kick in. I'd rather have Marian Hossa giving you not so much than dead cap space giving you nothing.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:29 pm 
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Minooka Meatball wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Might be gone this summer if Hartman or Ross can bring what he brings at half the price. It'll be a shame if he has to go.


Dont know either guy, but are they big and on Uppers? We can use 1 or 2 more of those guys.

Ryan Hartman (the kid out of West Dundee) has a little more upside than Shaw does but is similar. Garret Ross is more or less a clone. If they have to squeeze out a guy who's only making $2MM, which really isn't that much for a quality bottom-six guy, it'll be because Saad is gouging us the way Toews and Kane just did.


How is it gouging that two elite players signed for their market value? IIRC, there were no contentious negotiations with either player. The Hawk smartly locked up their core heading into the players' prime. It was Tallon who fucked this team over with the ridiculous Hossa contract; if not for that, there would not be one eye-blink regarding the Toews and Kane extensions.

Yes, we realize it's too bad about the cap, but I would much rather be in the position of juggling my way under the cap because I have a wealth of world-class players (who a few I may need to say goodbye to down the road), with some promise coming out of the system, then say Buffalo - or Minnesota, who paid boatloads of money to sign Suter and Parise, but so far have nothing to show for it and those two disappearing in the playoffs.


Exactly, there isn't a bigger insult you can say about the Hawks than to say Toews and Kane gouged team. Such a fucking joke to say something so ignorant.

Toews and Kane are worth 3x that much, if there wasn't a cap they would each get Michael Jordan type deals. They are without a doubt the two most valuable players in the entire NHL when it comes to worth to their franchise. No one has done more for their franchise than Toews and Kane have. No one has raised the value of their franchise the way Toews and Kane have. Its unfortunate that there is a cap because these two deserve to be the two of the highest paid athletes in pro sports when value to franchise is factored in.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:37 pm 
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Curious Hair wrote:
Of course his production would decline, but they signed it in part knowing that Hossa is a conditioning machine who could remain a meaningful contributor right up until the dummy years. I think we've seen that, with him scoring fewer points but still playing consummate defense (this is exactly how people defend Toews, and he's only 26). If that was the way to sign him, I'm glad we did, and I hope he'll hang around the team as long as he can.

And no, they can't trade him, because then recapture would immediately kick in. I'd rather have Marian Hossa giving you not so much than dead cap space giving you nothing.


My bad on the trade option., but how much "not so much dead cap space" do you think he's got left?

IIRC, there was a ton of head scratching when that deal was announced for this very reason. Sure, I'm glad we had Hossa and have won two Cups with him (and maybe more), but then with this in mind, I don't see how the Hossa deal still looks good in the long run, while you continuously show your distaste for the Kane and Toews deals, when you pretty much know that, barring a career-threatening injury, the production is going to be there for many years to come. Plus, there WILL be some moves made over the next season or two that eases the cap issue a bit, and I'm guessing it may involve Seabrook (he's a FA after next season, anyway), among others that may not be so obvious.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:47 pm 
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Quote:
My bad on the trade option., but how much "not so much dead cap space" do you think he's got left?


We have Hossa under contract for six more years:

2016: $7.9MM (2.2 over hit)
2017: $4MM (3.54 under hit)
2018: $1MM (4.7 under hit)
2019: $1MM
2020: $1MM
2021: $1MM

I don't think it's unreasonable to think we can get two more meaningful years out of Hossa. After that, he dies and goes to long-term injured reserve heaven, which makes offseasons annoying but would be preferable to recaptures. If you were to trade him this summer, it would be $2.625MM a year in dead cap space for six years, next summer $3.675MM a year for five, and $4.275MM from there. I'll try my luck with keeping him and LTIRing him.

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Last edited by Curious Hair on Thu May 28, 2015 1:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:47 pm 
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They can have Hossa in a year or two become "injured" and have him go on long term IR forever in theory. I think that is right.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:18 pm 
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Minooka Meatball wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
bigfan wrote:
Curious Hair wrote:
Might be gone this summer if Hartman or Ross can bring what he brings at half the price. It'll be a shame if he has to go.


Dont know either guy, but are they big and on Uppers? We can use 1 or 2 more of those guys.

Ryan Hartman (the kid out of West Dundee) has a little more upside than Shaw does but is similar. Garret Ross is more or less a clone. If they have to squeeze out a guy who's only making $2MM, which really isn't that much for a quality bottom-six guy, it'll be because Saad is gouging us the way Toews and Kane just did.


How is it gouging that two elite players signed for their market value? IIRC, there were no contentious negotiations with either player. The Hawk smartly locked up their core heading into the players' prime. It was Tallon who fucked this team over with the ridiculous Hossa contract; if not for that, there would not be one eye-blink regarding the Toews and Kane extensions.

Yes, we realize it's too bad about the cap, but I would much rather be in the position of juggling my way under the cap because I have a wealth of world-class players (who a few I may need to say goodbye to down the road), with some promise coming out of the system, then say Buffalo - or Minnesota, who paid boatloads of money to sign Suter and Parise, but so far have nothing to show for it and those two disappearing in the playoffs.


shakes wrote:
Exactly, there isn't a bigger insult you can say about the Hawks than to say Toews and Kane gouged team. Such a fucking joke to say something so ignorant.

Toews and Kane are worth 3x that much, if there wasn't a cap they would each get Michael Jordan type deals. They are without a doubt the two most valuable players in the entire NHL when it comes to worth to their franchise. No one has done more for their franchise than Toews and Kane have. No one has raised the value of their franchise the way Toews and Kane have. Its unfortunate that there is a cap because these two deserve to be the two of the highest paid athletes in pro sports when value to franchise is factored in.


This and the comment about Hossa is why the hockey thread is a good place to avoid.

No Hossa, No Stanley Cups. They signed a deal that worked for both and the proof is in the results.

And shakes is spot on about Toews and Kane. Those Chevy commercials don't come close to making up for what they are worth over and above their contracts.

The Hawks should build a fucking statue for Dale Tallon.

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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:32 pm 
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shakes wrote:
They are without a doubt the two most valuable players in the entire NHL when it comes to worth to their franchise.

No. Sidney Crosby saved the Penguins from moving to freaking Kansas City, Las Vegas or who the hell knows where. Alex Ovechkin revived the shit show in DC and is essentially the only reason to tune into that slowly decaying team. But Toews and Kane are at least in the conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: SHAWZER????
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 2:35 pm 
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Stamkos arguably saved the Bolts from moving when Oren Koules owned the team, a tenure which basically consisted of walking around lighting random things on fire.

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