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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:06 pm 
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I'm wondering what Thibs value is around the league. The Pelican job is the best one out there with OKC being filled. Which begs this question. How valuable is Thibs if OKC, which will be far and away the best job available this summer, was not willing to wait on him? Everyone keeps talking about him being a lame duck coach. If so, why would OKC rush to fill their position with an unproven college coach rather than wait on the great Thibs? Why wouldn't OKC simply wait for the second best coach in the league (at least according to members of the board) to become available?


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:37 pm 
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Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
Cowley also cracked open the door of Uncle Jerry bringing everyone to one room and smashing their heads together. End result of Tibs staying. :shock:

That is exactly what should happen.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:57 pm 
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:57 pm 
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RFDC wrote:
Gloopan Kuratz wrote:
Cowley also cracked open the door of Uncle Jerry bringing everyone to one room and smashing their heads together. End result of Tibs staying. :shock:

That is exactly what should happen.


I agree. The Bulls and Thibs people have made this impossible.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 10:01 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Ron Wolfley wrote:
Adrian Wojnarowski was on Mully and Hanley this morning. The interview ended with Woj saying that a big reason why this divorce will happen is because management feels they haven't gotten enough credit. The spotlight has always been on Thibodeau.

Cubs pre and post game host Mark Grote (filling in for Hanley) said he knows Paxson and can't believe management feels that way. Grote said Paxson is already beloved here because of the big shots he made during his playing days. It would be totally out of character for Paxson to be envious.

I find it hard to believe the animosity is purely jealousy based. I'm guessing it's more Thibs being hard headed and almost insubordinate when minutes and rotation are discussed.


I think the most logical explanation is GarPax is playing poker with suitors of Thibs by forcing them to make a move if they really want him. That means doing nothing until they get a call from a team. That this process may result in those teams hiring other coaches (and thus screwing Thibs out of a job if he's fired) is irrelevant because holding out for a pick is in Chicago's best interest. Thibs is just a pawn just like any player under contract in that his interests are subordinate to those of the team.

The only way holding out is not in Chicago's best interest is if they are then prevented from interviewing a coach they've identified as the best coaching candidate out there (because they have a coach in place). If the pelicans really want Thibs and don't want to trade for him, they should schedule interviews with Hoiberg, Gentry, and whomever else the Bulls are interested in just to force their hand.

No one is giving up a first for Thibs, particularly given how transparent the Bulls have made it that he's gone. This effort to attempt to regain leverage is poor at best though not really a surprise given the players involved in the front office.


I think Thibs fucked them. He knew they were going to get rid of him so he let it be known all season long he was going to be let go. He was smart for doing it. He gets paid no matter what and they get zero compensation.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 10:11 pm 
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Nas wrote:
I think Thibs fucked them. He knew they were going to get rid of him so he let it be known all season long he was going to be let go. He was smart for doing it. He gets paid no matter what and they get zero compensation.

I think it's inaccurate to suggest that it was Thibs alone making it obvious to everyone that he was being fired, particularly given known FO mouthpieces like Bernstein and Johnson banging the drum on this for the past 4+ months.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 10:20 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
Nas wrote:
I think Thibs fucked them. He knew they were going to get rid of him so he let it be known all season long he was going to be let go. He was smart for doing it. He gets paid no matter what and they get zero compensation.

I think it's inaccurate to suggest that it was Thibs alone making it obvious to everyone that he was being fired, particularly given known FO mouthpieces like Bernstein and Johnson banging the drum on this for the past 4+ months.


I think both parties were involved. The Bulls had their people telling fans that it's time for Thibs to go. Thibs had his people talk about how the Bulls were undermining him and point out that only a handful of coaches has done what he's done in 5 years despite having a bad/injured roster most of the time.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 10:44 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
Zippy-The-Pinhead wrote:
Ron Wolfley wrote:
Adrian Wojnarowski was on Mully and Hanley this morning. The interview ended with Woj saying that a big reason why this divorce will happen is because management feels they haven't gotten enough credit. The spotlight has always been on Thibodeau.

Cubs pre and post game host Mark Grote (filling in for Hanley) said he knows Paxson and can't believe management feels that way. Grote said Paxson is already beloved here because of the big shots he made during his playing days. It would be totally out of character for Paxson to be envious.

I find it hard to believe the animosity is purely jealousy based. I'm guessing it's more Thibs being hard headed and almost insubordinate when minutes and rotation are discussed.


I think the most logical explanation is GarPax is playing poker with suitors of Thibs by forcing them to make a move if they really want him. That means doing nothing until they get a call from a team. That this process may result in those teams hiring other coaches (and thus screwing Thibs out of a job if he's fired) is irrelevant because holding out for a pick is in Chicago's best interest. Thibs is just a pawn just like any player under contract in that his interests are subordinate to those of the team.

The only way holding out is not in Chicago's best interest is if they are then prevented from interviewing a coach they've identified as the best coaching candidate out there (because they have a coach in place). If the pelicans really want Thibs and don't want to trade for him, they should schedule interviews with Hoiberg, Gentry, and whomever else the Bulls are interested in just to force their hand.

No one is giving up a first for Thibs, particularly given how transparent the Bulls have made it that he's gone. This effort to attempt to regain leverage is poor at best though not really a surprise given the players involved in the front office.


I agree no one will give up a first but that doesn't mean the Bulls can't hold out in the hope that some other team will blink first. Like I said it's in the Bulls' best interest to hold out no matter how unlikely holding out will yield any compensatory return. They should only fire him once the possibility of compensation is eliminated.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 10:50 pm 
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long time guy wrote:
I'm wondering what Thibs value is around the league. The Pelican job is the best one out there with OKC being filled. Which begs this question. How valuable is Thibs if OKC, which will be far and away the best job available this summer, was not willing to wait on him? Everyone keeps talking about him being a lame duck coach. If so, why would OKC rush to fill their position with an unproven college coach rather than wait on the great Thibs? Why wouldn't OKC simply wait for the second best coach in the league (at least according to members of the board) to become available?


This is a bad angle and I bet you know that. Okc? Why the hell would they wait for Thibs since at the time the Bulls were still alive and considered a contender? Thibs is a proven commodity if you're looking to reshape a team into.a contender right away. He's not Pop or PJ. With another successful but ringless tenure somewhere else perhaps he becomes what Fratello and someone like JVG used to be in the 90s. Not unreasonable imo.

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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 11:15 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
I'm wondering what Thibs value is around the league. The Pelican job is the best one out there with OKC being filled. Which begs this question. How valuable is Thibs if OKC, which will be far and away the best job available this summer, was not willing to wait on him? Everyone keeps talking about him being a lame duck coach. If so, why would OKC rush to fill their position with an unproven college coach rather than wait on the great Thibs? Why wouldn't OKC simply wait for the second best coach in the league (at least according to members of the board) to become available?


This is a bad angle and I bet you know that. Okc? Why the hell would they wait for Thibs since at the time the Bulls were still alive and considered a contender? Thibs is a proven commodity if you're looking to reshape a team into.a contender right away. He's not Pop or PJ. With another successful but ringless tenure somewhere else perhaps he becomes what Fratello and someone like JVG used to be in the 90s. Not unreasonable imo.


When you really think about it it's really not that bad of an angle. It's been well known that Thibs was gone. Why would OKC rush to hire a college coach if they had a shot a Thibs? That was easily the best job available. If Thibs is held in the esteem that many here think that he is OKC would have at least waited until he became available before they filled their position. They would have waited to talk to him. The only way that the position gets filled otherwise is if someone of similar reputation is hired first. OKC when fully healthy is a legitimate championship contender. Why wouldn't they want the second best coach in the league. It's obvious that they did not think that he was worth waiting for.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 11:51 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
I agree no one will give up a first but that doesn't mean the Bulls can't hold out in the hope that some other team will blink first. Like I said it's in the Bulls' best interest to hold out no matter how unlikely holding out will yield any compensatory return. They should only fire him once the possibility of compensation is eliminated.
The infinitesimal chance someone blinks first isn't worth the cost of looking even pettier than the front office has already, which is exactly how this is being represented nationally. If compensation was such a high priority perhaps the Bulls should have thought twice before making it blatantly obvious to everyone that this was an inevitability. Cowley said the offers they put out to teams with vacancies were "outrageous," which is hardly a surprise.


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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 11:54 pm 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I agree no one will give up a first but that doesn't mean the Bulls can't hold out in the hope that some other team will blink first. Like I said it's in the Bulls' best interest to hold out no matter how unlikely holding out will yield any compensatory return. They should only fire him once the possibility of compensation is eliminated.
The infinitesimal chance someone blinks first isn't worth the cost of looking even pettier than the front office has already, which is exactly how this is being represented nationally. If compensation was such a high priority perhaps the Bulls should have thought twice before making it blatantly obvious to everyone that this was an inevitability. Cowley said the offers they put out to teams with vacancies were "outrageous," which is hardly a surprise.


Give me 2 unprotected 1st round picks for a coach I don't want. You can also throw in $12M so I can hire a new coach.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 1:36 am 
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Woj said a couple days ago that Skiles to Orlando was all but done. New Orleans interviewed Skiles today. I call bullshit. Both teams want Thibs. Bulls give Tom and their 22nd pick to Orlando for their 5th.


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 6:19 am 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I agree no one will give up a first but that doesn't mean the Bulls can't hold out in the hope that some other team will blink first. Like I said it's in the Bulls' best interest to hold out no matter how unlikely holding out will yield any compensatory return. They should only fire him once the possibility of compensation is eliminated.
The infinitesimal chance someone blinks first isn't worth the cost of looking even pettier than the front office has already, which is exactly how this is being represented nationally. If compensation was such a high priority perhaps the Bulls should have thought twice before making it blatantly obvious to everyone that this was an inevitability. Cowley said the offers they put out to teams with vacancies were "outrageous," which is hardly a surprise.


Cowley is Thibs' mouthpiece. The Bulls look petty because they're losing the PR war to Thibs, not because they are actually petty. They will probably engage in some muckraking once this is all done to reshape the narrative. Are you suggesting they fire him and thus lose out on the possibility, no matter how small, of compensation just to avoid looking petty? That would be failing to extract the most value out of an asset in addition to acknowledging PR incompetence. Again I don't see how firing him now represents the team's best interests unless not doing so prevents them from hiring the coach they want.

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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 8:19 am 
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The Cavs are playing well because of LeBron. These same guys sucked with Marshmelo. He makes players around him better. Similar to what Scottie did for the Bulls.

JR Smiths stats were better with the Knicks....sometimes all your shit don't stick


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:28 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I agree no one will give up a first but that doesn't mean the Bulls can't hold out in the hope that some other team will blink first. Like I said it's in the Bulls' best interest to hold out no matter how unlikely holding out will yield any compensatory return. They should only fire him once the possibility of compensation is eliminated.
The infinitesimal chance someone blinks first isn't worth the cost of looking even pettier than the front office has already, which is exactly how this is being represented nationally. If compensation was such a high priority perhaps the Bulls should have thought twice before making it blatantly obvious to everyone that this was an inevitability. Cowley said the offers they put out to teams with vacancies were "outrageous," which is hardly a surprise.


Cowley is Thibs' mouthpiece. The Bulls look petty because they're losing the PR war to Thibs, not because they are actually petty. They will probably engage in some muckraking once this is all done to reshape the narrative. Are you suggesting they fire him and thus lose out on the possibility, no matter how small, of compensation just to avoid looking petty? That would be failing to extract the most value out of an asset in addition to acknowledging PR incompetence. Again I don't see how firing him now represents the team's best interests unless not doing so prevents them from hiring the coach they want.

Call Cowley Thibs' mouthpiece if you want but it's been reported by ESPN and others that no team is willing to give the Bulls close to the compensation that they want. And you can downplay looking petty as mere PR if you want, but it doesn't help the less than sterling reputation the organization already has, particularly in terms of attracting free agents. Are you really saying that the possibility of some low second round pick is worth further undermining your appeal to future prospective players (and coaches for that matter)?


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:34 am 
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I am in agreeance on this one. Holding out for a second rd pick shouldn't be the thing holding the deal up. It was reported awhile ago that the Bulls couldn't find any takers for Thibs. Cut bait and move on.

Its two reasons for the reluctance 1. Every team knows he is a lame duck coach and have known for months. 2. They have watched him coach during the playoffs and know that he isn't worth compensation.


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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 9:46 am 
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ZephMarshack wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
ZephMarshack wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
I agree no one will give up a first but that doesn't mean the Bulls can't hold out in the hope that some other team will blink first. Like I said it's in the Bulls' best interest to hold out no matter how unlikely holding out will yield any compensatory return. They should only fire him once the possibility of compensation is eliminated.
The infinitesimal chance someone blinks first isn't worth the cost of looking even pettier than the front office has already, which is exactly how this is being represented nationally. If compensation was such a high priority perhaps the Bulls should have thought twice before making it blatantly obvious to everyone that this was an inevitability. Cowley said the offers they put out to teams with vacancies were "outrageous," which is hardly a surprise.


Cowley is Thibs' mouthpiece. The Bulls look petty because they're losing the PR war to Thibs, not because they are actually petty. They will probably engage in some muckraking once this is all done to reshape the narrative. Are you suggesting they fire him and thus lose out on the possibility, no matter how small, of compensation just to avoid looking petty? That would be failing to extract the most value out of an asset in addition to acknowledging PR incompetence. Again I don't see how firing him now represents the team's best interests unless not doing so prevents them from hiring the coach they want.

Call Cowley Thibs' mouthpiece if you want but it's been reported by ESPN and others that no team is willing to give the Bulls close to the compensation that they want. And you can downplay looking petty as mere PR if you want, but it doesn't help the less than sterling reputation the organization already has, particularly in terms of attracting free agents. Are you really saying that the possibility of some low second round pick is worth further undermining your appeal to future prospective players (and coaches for that matter)?


I don't think they think they're undermining their appeal. They're going to be a player because of the market and prestige anyway. They're not good at attracting top tier free agents regardless. Coaches will come if the talent and money are there. And the question is not about a second round pick, it's about refusing to let an asset you control walk away for nothing.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 3:06 pm 
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veganfan21 wrote:
Ron Wolfley wrote:
long time guy wrote:
Nas wrote:
I believe that Kevin Love's injury was the worst thing that happened to the Bulls. Worse than Gasol basically missing 4 games. Cleveland instantly became a better defensive team. LeBron not being forced to get Love touches also made their offense more fluid. With all that being said the Bulls still should have won. Thibs underachieved this year.


Cleveland became better defensively and the Bulls became far worse offensively. Taj Gibson was exposed by Tristan Thompson and the Bulls offense became anemic and far too predictable. The Bulls are closer to Cleveland than it appears. They have enough talent to play with Cleveland. You have Delladanova and James Jones being provided with meaningful minutes during the playoffs. How good can they be?


Cleveland's success in the Finals depends on how healthy Kyrie will be in a week. Either way, Golden State wins the series. In the summer, Kevin Love definitely opts out and goes elsewhere. If any of the other 29 teams think JR Smith is worth more than 6 million a year, he opts out and signs elsewhere. Restricted free agent Tristan Thompson resigns for an ungodly amount of money.

Their roster is going to be weaker but they'll still have LeBron. GarPax has to get creative this summer. I don't expect something big but something like Taj Gibson for Terrence Ross - to get more athletic.


The Bulls had enough to beat this weak ass Cleveland team. With Irving at 50% and Love out this roster has to be one of the worst finalists ever. The Bulls players suck for quitting and Thibs sucks for not developing the younger players into the additional assets he needed to generate offense against Cleveland. Good riddance, Thibs. Have fun cutting short Anthony Davis' career



These Granville Waiters like pivots are becoming quite pronounced. Or is it that I'm the only one doing the pronouncing? This is quite the example of "credible" posting at its finest. I must have missed the admittance of wrong somewhere along the line.

What? a Thibs critic becomes a fierce advocate without the benefit of the guy coaching another game? How'd that happen cappin?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 8:53 am 
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long time guy wrote:


These Granville Waiters like pivots are becoming quite pronounced. Or is it that I'm the only one doing the pronouncing? This is quite the example of "credible" posting at its finest. I must have missed the admittance of wrong somewhere along the line.

What? a Thibs critic becomes a fierce advocate without the benefit of the guy coaching another game? How'd that happen cappin?


I think you don't know the meaning of "credible," but I'll leave that discussion for another day. There is no pivoting here - that's your forte. I've said before that it was time for Thibs to go in Chicago since he lost the locker room after five years. It took Hoiberg all of five weeks to lose his locker room, comparatively speaking.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:14 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:


These Granville Waiters like pivots are becoming quite pronounced. Or is it that I'm the only one doing the pronouncing? This is quite the example of "credible" posting at its finest. I must have missed the admittance of wrong somewhere along the line.

What? a Thibs critic becomes a fierce advocate without the benefit of the guy coaching another game? How'd that happen cappin?


I think you don't know the meaning of "credible," but I'll leave that discussion for another day. There is no pivoting here - that's your forte. I've said before that it was time for Thibs to go in Chicago since he lost the locker room after five years. It took Hoiberg all of five weeks to lose his locker room, comparatively speaking.


I don't think you actually know what it means to be frank. How can you have credibility on an issue when you make arguments that are paradoxical in nature? You have been touting the greatness of Thibs for the better part of two months. Please don't obfuscate by asking me to find a direct quote where you used the word "great". Petty deflections are most unbecoming. You obviously wanted the world to know that you were a fan. Now I find a quote where you posted "good riddance" to him and you wonder why your "credibility" is called into question. You have quite clearly been painting yourself as a Thibs guy until it was discovered that you were also a Thibs detractor. You are both a supporter and a detractor yet you wonder why your credibility is called into question? Maybe you don't know the meaning of credible. Good way to cover all of your flanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:29 am 
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long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:


These Granville Waiters like pivots are becoming quite pronounced. Or is it that I'm the only one doing the pronouncing? This is quite the example of "credible" posting at its finest. I must have missed the admittance of wrong somewhere along the line.

What? a Thibs critic becomes a fierce advocate without the benefit of the guy coaching another game? How'd that happen cappin?


I think you don't know the meaning of "credible," but I'll leave that discussion for another day. There is no pivoting here - that's your forte. I've said before that it was time for Thibs to go in Chicago since he lost the locker room after five years. It took Hoiberg all of five weeks to lose his locker room, comparatively speaking.


I don't think you actually know what it means to be frank. How can you have credibility on an issue when you make arguments that are paradoxical in nature? You have been touting the greatness of Thibs for the better part of two months. Please don't obfuscate by asking me to find a direct quote where you used the word "great". Petty deflections are most unbecoming. You obviously wanted the world to know that you were a fan. Now I find a quote where you posted "good riddance" to him and you wonder why your "credibility" is called into question. You have quite clearly been painting yourself as a Thibs guy until it was discovered that you were also a Thibs detractor. You are both a supporter and a detractor yet you wonder why your credibility is called into question? Maybe you don't know the meaning of credible. Good way to cover all of your flanks.


Again I am not wondering about my "credibility." Guys can decide for themselves whether I can engage in fun but honest/serious debates, or whether I'm a troll. I hope most see the former in me. I am a Thibs supporter and I also understand why he needed to go. Those are not mutually exclusive opinions. The post you quoted obviously came after the Bulls had just been eliminated, so while said in frustration I have no problem owning the quote. You don't own shit when called out. Clearly the knock on you as duplicitous has struck a nerve so I'll refrain from pointing that out anymore.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2016 9:44 am 
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veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:
veganfan21 wrote:
long time guy wrote:


These Granville Waiters like pivots are becoming quite pronounced. Or is it that I'm the only one doing the pronouncing? This is quite the example of "credible" posting at its finest. I must have missed the admittance of wrong somewhere along the line.

What? a Thibs critic becomes a fierce advocate without the benefit of the guy coaching another game? How'd that happen cappin?


I think you don't know the meaning of "credible," but I'll leave that discussion for another day. There is no pivoting here - that's your forte. I've said before that it was time for Thibs to go in Chicago since he lost the locker room after five years. It took Hoiberg all of five weeks to lose his locker room, comparatively speaking.


I don't think you actually know what it means to be frank. How can you have credibility on an issue when you make arguments that are paradoxical in nature? You have been touting the greatness of Thibs for the better part of two months. Please don't obfuscate by asking me to find a direct quote where you used the word "great". Petty deflections are most unbecoming. You obviously wanted the world to know that you were a fan. Now I find a quote where you posted "good riddance" to him and you wonder why your "credibility" is called into question. You have quite clearly been painting yourself as a Thibs guy until it was discovered that you were also a Thibs detractor. You are both a supporter and a detractor yet you wonder why your credibility is called into question? Maybe you don't know the meaning of credible. Good way to cover all of your flanks.


Again I am not wondering about my "credibility." Guys can decide for themselves whether I can engage in fun but honest/serious debates, or whether I'm a troll. I hope most see the former in me. I am a Thibs supporter and I also understand why he needed to go. Those are not mutually exclusive opinions. The post you quoted obviously came after the Bulls had just been eliminated, so while said in frustration I have no problem owning the quote. You don't own shit when called out. Clearly the knock on you as duplicitous has struck a nerve so I'll refrain from pointing that out anymore.



I'm cool with everything that is said on this board. None of this stuff bothers me trust me or don't on it. However you made exactly the same arguments that I have made yet you only take ownership once the evidence is irrefutable. As I stated previously I'm glad that there are guys willing to talk basketball on here. That is a net plus in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:04 am 
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long time guy wrote:
Petty deflections are most unbecoming.


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